economics double major reddit

Every professor I've talked to about going the PhD route has told me other business grad degrees pay more and to be really sure I'm willing to specialize and make a name for myself, I've read some of their working papers and it doesn't seem manageable but not like something I'd love. I opted for Econ at the time (over business admin) because I felt it gave me more latitude to pursue my interests. This is distinct from the one related course credit allowed. Tulane has a masters of energy program that would be very interesting to look into. I went into reinsurance. Still attending grad school? I honestly don't know of anyone who is doing a degree in economics and wishes for a job in the private sector. Most Popular Double Majors. A lot of my classmates (our class was remarkably small compared to popular majors like accounting and finance) went with grad school and I know one who went into law. Regret getting an economic degree? I would rather have pursued an engineering degree and studied economics as a hobby. Economics is all theory and it may or may not be right. Unfortunately I don't think NFL is in the cards for me. An economics major without lots of econometrics/statistics/programming etc is at a disadvantage for applying to the type of positions that will move you forward in an analytical career. hedge your bets, that's what they teach you in risk management in finance....not economics. I got to a point where I realized the degree I had wasn't going to get me to where I wanted to be. I'd look to double major, it doesn't need to be economics, can you fit another major into your degree? Seriously, even my supposed "upper-division" classes were pathetically easy. I get the idea that the "analyst" you are talking about is more along the lines of buisnes analysts / consultant type jobs instead of quantitative analysis type jobs. Major 14-1: Economics . That attitude will get you nowhere. I was so shocked at how little I know when I entered grad school. Before I dive into the reasons to double major, let me briefly touch upon the 2 majors I think every college student should pursue. I am considering Economics, Political Science, Statistics, History, Marketing, English, Telecommunication, or Public Relations. I regret deeply that I didn’t do any internships in college, or any Econ related volunteer work to get my foot in the door somewhere. Just wondering if any undegrad economist regret their choices. Economics is a great degree, especially paired with classes focusing on technical skills like programming, data analysis, and statistics. In conclusion, kick ass in school as well as getting your network started early. Thanks for replying! I love economics, and my job is definitely great from a financial/benefits point of view, but I do sometimes regret not getting into a field that allows you to actually work with real things, like engineering/chemistry/biology, as opposed to just moving numbers around. I learned as much mathematics, econometrics, and statistics as I could. Banks and professional services hire a lot of Econ grads. No posts matching the query: Reddit Finance And Economics Double Major. Show all posts Understanding the phrase that there is no free lunch alone requires a lot of foundation. Did you try finding other jobs before going back to add accounting? I have a degree in economics and naturally I have many friends who graduated with the same major. I'm back to grad school now, though I've always been a nerd and I took this opportunity in order to develop my own theoretic models on public affairs stuff that interests me. Are there any other majors that would be more helpful? In The Great Gatsby at one point Daisy cries that she hopes she has stupid, stupid children so that they don't suffer knowing how f'd up things are. Yeah I'm not sure this applies to the U.S., though I could be wrong. I've been involved with career societies all three years of my degree, I think the main issue that people have is that they don't do enough things outside of their academic course. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AskAnAmerican community, AskAnAmerican: Learn about America, straight from the mouth of Americans, Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. I've been really happy with my Econ undergrad. Double majors may have two courses that overlap between the two majors. My brother who became a banker and my friend that plays in the NFL. Nonetheless I think a good student in economics develops an intuition along with the repertoire of understandings of past policy mistakes and other often counter intuitive mistakes. I think it really depends on where you go, what your coursework consists of, and work experience you gain along the way. If you do econ, then double major with finance with the intention of going into investments. I have a terrible background in statistics, econometric and programming knowledge, which makes it very difficult to get an analytic career. Business Economics major. I am in the public policy world and would be interested to hear about what you do. One is at Stanford doing engineering management (he doubled in comp sci) and accepted a very handsome offer from a big tech company. Was that government job difficult to land? From a financial standpoint, yes! There are a ton of masters of finance programs that will immerse you in the quant side and will give you some wiggle room on what you come in with. I currently submitted my application for Ross BBA but highly doubt that I will get in. We’re looking for more contributors for this blog. The public perception of economics is that it is a field of contention and that it's all opinions. The economics part of it is the only bit that feels to me to be 'real' knowledge and actually interesting. I guess it really comes down to viewing your degree as a tool for the job market. The only time I was ever expected to write, think or work was in Econometrics (and that wasn't hard either). Prospective students who searched for Double Major in Economics & Political Science found the following information and resources relevant and helpful. What made you not like the job prospects? Several excellent PhD candidates from the Economics Department are seeking full time employment. What sets people apart at work is interpersonal skills and natural ability. Most all of my circle of friends wanted to go into private industry. I got a bachelors degree in Economics. Banking doesn't sound that bad to me. I went into corporate finance, hated the field and went into auditing instead. I left the industry after fifteen years or so for personal reasons. I've picked data analytics as a minor, and next semester I'll be taking some programming classes so I'm glad you seem to think those things are good to have under my belt. But we economists shouldn't. She enjoys using writing to connect with her campus community. The study of economics is practiced like a science and there is progress. While accounting majors learn about the intricacies of financial transactions and record-keeping, finance majors study financial management-related topics and how they relate to the global economy. Learning statistical software / programing is a very useful job skill (Stata is popular in the US, R is gaining some following, there are others too). You should start taking exams while in university though. It's kind of how if you live in Kansas you might regret studying biology and understanding that field's fundamental principles. Although they're both business disciplines, as we've mentioned in other articles, accounting and finance focus on different areas of the field. I believe my cousin has a pretty outstanding academic record, so she went straight into investment banking after her internship with a major bank. Then went into politics. Spending all those years in school to get a PhD doesn't sound appealing to me so I appreciate the info on what I can do without it. Combining computer science and economics studies for a double major can prepare students to bridge fields and work with computer technology as it intersects with economics. I've heard you shouldn't learn Mandarin because their business people are terrible to work with, but I always thought working abroad sounded interesting. Hi, I am an rising sophomore (international student) at University of Michigan. Note: We will not accept LATE applications after this deadline. If not, what do you think would? I have worse things to say about those who did business or accounting as a degree. The Course 14-1 Program leads to the degree of Bachelor of Science in Economics. Though if I had the time and money, I don't mind pursuing an undergraduate in Math and Physics. Another crucial point is that I found a professor who mentored me through undergrad. For advanced positions, an advanced … The UK firms place quite a big preference on extracurricular activities (and I heard it's the same with the US), so it's more about what you do at Uni that counts, not just what you study. You can also do a lot in technology. Finance for a finance position). I'm astounded at some of the modules that form part of what I believe should be a respectable and highly regarded degree. I didn't comment on the moderator post a few days ago, but I think a large portion of private sector jobs in economics are still very political. It even handicapped my chances when applying to grad school that takes very seriously the amount of previous math and statistical courses. What I'm talking about is the specific career path of being an economist. I loved studying economics but unless you want to get into actuary science or international finance, the field is pretty sparse elsewise for careers. A degree in economics can help you get started in many areas, including public policy and finance. You can use an economics degree to study industry trends, labor markets, the prospects for individual companies, and the forces that drive the economy. I regret it. Those of my friends who didn't want a career in academics went on to obtain master's degrees in business related majors - MBA, marketing, accounting, etc. tl;dr: if you add in research, some technical programing type skills, and as much math as you can, there are cool jobs out there. Here’s a summary … I have a degree in economics and naturally I have many friends who graduated with the same major. I'm studying in the UK, and there isn't too much of an issue career wise with having an Econ degree. Quant. It would be great if voters demanded that policy makers do the equivalent of "show your work". How difficult did you find the transition to grad school? I guess I am being more specific towards those who are not going to be a professional economist or academic. Major 1 : A major that you are passionate about. and regular. Actuarial science is a great field in the reinsurance industry for economics majors because of the use of statistics and probability in that field. Look into grad programs. However, there are certain types of jobs that only someone with a degree in economics can apply for. Maybe with the exception of people who have very specific degrees such as Economic Analysis. Of my two closest friends that were Econ majors, neither were satisfied with the job prospects with a BA alone. However, at any given time there is a comedy of incompetents, whether you are in business looking at some management or just a voter looking at your representatives. The skills developed through studying economics are incredibly versatile and can be employed in a wide range of industries – by the time the course ends an economics graduate will be comfortable with dealing with numbers as well as experience in using innovative techniques to overcome problems. My dad has a long history of working multiple industries, and started off with international importing/exporting businesses under government work. Please elaborate on the modeling for public affairs stuff. Get off your high horse when talking down other majors. Strong quantitative skills often make one a better job candidate and grad school candidate. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. As economists call it, these two majors offer excellent complementarities, which means they enhance each other’s values. I was a double major in ugrad, Economics and Finance. Why for instance does increasing productivity not count as violating the idea that there are no free lunches? In addition to fulfilling the 17 General Institute Requirements 1, an economics major must take the following subjects 2: - 14.01 Principles of Microeconomics (Students with a score of 5 on the Economics AP exam may substitute 14.03 Micro … Hope that helps. I took a lot of quant courses, and opted for a senior thesis, which gave me a project to talk about with potential employers. Most economics majors know that there are plenty of job opportunities for them in finance and government, but don’t discount the private sector! My other regret is that I was not sufficiently inquisitive to actually learn about recent advances in economic theory and empirical methods. The other will be starting with me (a sociology major) at a masters of accounting program. I'll definitely be doing internships at some point, but banking doesn't sound all that bad to me. If I may ask a question... HS junior looking at colleges w/ good economics. Basically, anything any one with a degree in business could do, you can do. It is really more a question about what you want to do. I'd say it also depends on what you want to get into afterwards. Physics is of very limited use in economics, while mathematics makes it a lot easier. Students wanting more flexibility might wish to consider a double-Major in Economics and Mathematics. Students who take courses on Cr/D/F basis in 2019WT2 will still be eligible to apply for admissions to the Economics Major/Combined Major program. You might be competing with math and comp sci majors for some of them, but the more interesting ones like economic research experience / econometrics experience. I didn't work any relevant internships to what I'd like to do, so I'm learning basic programming on my own while I apply to grad school for a master's in business analytics or finance. Thank you! I'm currently doing liberal arts econ with advertising and computer science and it forces me into redundancies in stat classes (I've taken Stat I twice, one with a business focus, business stat 2, and will take 2 more "research methods" classes eventually...) , ; I imagine I'll fall into a jr. analyst at some private place and build a specialty and hopefully move to consulting. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AskSocialScience community, Press J to jump to the feed. When students study both disciplines, they can use their degree to pursue a career as a brokerage clerk. Are you just saying this because now you realize you prefer engineering to econ, or because your econ degree doesn't fulfill what you'd like it to? I think the math skills + Stata knowledge + research experience were my real selling points for getting my job. I'm just finishing up a degree in Business Studies with Economics, my regret is doing the Business Studies bit. Students will graduate with two undergraduate degrees from two different SMU schools within four to five years: The subject title should be: Change of Major Request Form. Not only does it offer an excellent variety of […] Summary of Program Entry Requirements. I am not getting my phd in economics, but another of the social sciences. The accounting program I'm going into is one of the top ranked, and it REQUIRES you to come from a background other than accounting. I also did a honors thesis, getting research experience. I learned pretty much nothing useful in college, and left with no job skills. Don´t do economics if you only want it for your resume. It was pretty much go to class, take notes, take a test. The Economics major is the most popular major at Brandeis University, and the Department of Economics is made up of a team of internationally recognized research faculty.The major is also appealing with an emphasis on not only a strong curriculum, but encouraged involvement in departmental events, lectures, individual research, and community service. Either ECO 321 and ECO 348 may be counted as a second upper-division substitute. He made a world of difference. So if your end goal is some sort of private sector job, do you think the Econ degree would help you get an edge? Advice, anecdotes from friends, etc. This is EXACTLY what I want to do with my Econ degree but I’m struggling to find anything. I'm an Economics major and I'm trying to get a better idea of what I could realistically do with it when I graduate. I think it depends on where you're from. What did you hate about corporate finance? I also have enough credits to pursue a double major in 4 years, so that is not a concern of mine. Please note that it is not permissible to combine two greatly overlapping majors. So I find this mismatch of difficulty and the appreciation from the recruiters quite unfair. Similarly, students considering a double major in economics and either statistics or math should consult academic advisors in both departments. I went into corporate finance, hated the field and went into auditing instead. I don't even want to elaborate how little I know about econometrics technique. Economics Knowledge Is Useful at a Personal Level When pursuing a degree in economics, you'll learn a lot of skills and knowledge that you can apply to other jobs or to your personal life. (Going back to grad school in a few years.). Also, I learned a lot of Stata. My only regret was not taking even more quantitative courses. I was amazed at everything that is out there. Not sure that’s a super popular route for most people these days lol. Care to talk about that experience? I don't mind the late reply! He went to law school. Plus you can do a lot with a quantitative focus. The following provides an overview of available Economics programs and the first year Economics and Mathematics courses required for program admission. Although there are some associate's degree programs for economics majors, a bachelor's degree is the required minimum for most entry-level positions. 27 percent had two arts/social science majors; 14 percent had two business majors; 39 percent had two majors that crossed disciplinary categories But other engineering/science/language degrees holders can still take up these analyst jobs in banks/insurance/accounting companies and at the same time able to go into their degree specific roles. Thanks for the reply. I felt the same way as SmoothB1983. Everybody works for a living. Investment/private banking, financial advising, business analytics, consulting, information technology, insurance, the list goes on. If I do not get into Ross, would a double major in Economics and Statistics allow me to enter IB and trading with a little bit of networking, assuming i get gpa of 3.5+? Nope. Fun stuff. I'm sure you'll agree if you went to a decent university your economics degree must have had some kick ass difficult combination of maths and essay writings and some more. When it comes to college majors, economics is something of an outsider. Double Major with Economics ECO 303 and 305 together count as one of the two outside upper-division AMS substitutes. And if you have any more suggestions, please let me know! What would you prefer to be doing with your degree? What kind of stuff does he do? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I worked in government with labor market statistics for a while then went back and added a degree in accounting because I didn't like my job prospects. I'm getting my master's in accounting, have a job lined up, love it even more. Thanks for the reply. But I think they are the smart ones - they still land the same kind of jobs as economists while cruising through their degree. The best offers I’ve gotten so far is like $15/hr...........I MAKE MORE THAN THAT AT MY PART TIME RESTAURANT JOB. Home Posts filed under Search results for Reddit Finance And Economics Double Major. Many people realized that it is hard to get a non-academic job with economics (if you dont want to work in a bank or in the public sector, or maybe for a large company) and changed majors. That's the other source of my regret. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. I don't think many undergraduate economics programs actually have very difficult math requirements, and my biggest criticism of mine was that I can't remember having to write any significant essays. As a mathematician you might call that superadditive. My husband is an actuary but does not have a degree in economics. For example, if you were double majoring in business and economics, you'd most likely earn a single bachelor of science (BS) degree for your two specializations. I think people are right that if you want to go with economics alone you need to take all the difficult quantitative classes to prepare yourself for some generic "analyst" career. There are a lot of options out there for grad programs. Basically, in the 21st century, to be a professional economist, you need to have at least an undergraduate degree in economics, and increasingly, a post graduate one as well. Double Degrees Students can choose a double degree option and combine their BBM with another area of expertise, such as Economics or Law. Failure to maintain the required GPAs will result in the student being placed on Lack of Progress in the major and/or College. For information on how to add one of our Pre Majors to your DAR while remaining in your current major, how to add Economics to your DAR while remaining in your current major, or how to pursue a double major with one of our majors – please review our FAQs. Economics studies how individuals, companies and governments interact at the domestic and international levels to make decisions maximizing satisfaction, profits, output and growth subject to scarcity of resources like time, land, labor, technology and natural resources. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Where are your strengths? I was a double major in ugrad, Economics and Finance. Basically what is database optimization and statistical analysis. is a lot more mathematically rigorous. My experience and those around me with Econ: Working in what is now referred to as 'big data'. I started going to every university I respected and started browsing around all the different masters they offered. Yes, I severely regret it. Finance employees would also look for evidence of soft skills (teamwork, leadership, communication etc) through either extracurricular activities and work experience. Students in the Economics major must maintain a 2.0 or higher cumulative Grade Point Average in all major courses taken at UCF and a 2.0 or higher cumulative GPA in all College of Business courses taken at UCF. Thanks for the reply. If you would like to work as an economist, an economics degree is a must. Had you done enough math prep work in your undergrad? Department Newsletter December 2020 This issue features Tan Kwan Boon, Evelyn Kok and Yu Xinyao, who are practitioners and researchers in the social service sector. Economists are still debating whether the fed reserve started the great depression in the 30s or not. Too broad for me and I ended up competing against people that had more relevant majors (ex. This is all if you don't continue on to a PhD. Working as a consultant in strategic management. What do economics graduates go on to do? I ended up in banking, because I found that out in the real world no one knows what economics is, and just assumed it is the same as a finance degree. How are you feeling about your job prospects? There are data analysis and research assistantship type jobs out there for people with strong quantitative skills. Out of school (in 2000, so a while ago), I got the first job I interviewed for and was thrilled - started out as a financial regulator, made a reputation for myself collaborating on white papers and building specialized databases (the tech stuff I taught myself on my own time), and ended up getting poached by a consulting firm and worked in capital markets for years. His degree was in biomedical engineering. Even shortly out of school when I was talking to a lot of chief economists at the big banks it seemed clear to me that they were careful of knowing how their bread was buttered. I can guarantee if you force yourself to go through it, you will forget everything very soon. Thanks for the information. For example, a major in Economics and Mathematics cannot be joined with a second major in either Economics or Mathematics. That that is a contentious statement among people who have no training is a reason not to study economics. Then practiced law for a bit. It’s a topic that sits at the intersection of arts, science and mathematics, offering a mindset that is equal parts creative, analytical and results-focused. Programs for economics majors, a bachelor 's degree or Ph.D. degree have the best options. N'T going to a PhD now find a masters of management Studies that wants students with general backgrounds. Really comes down to viewing your degree as a brokerage clerk don´t do economics if have... Education Review, students double-majoring in 2008 fell into the following categories: economists while cruising through their degree unfair! Public policy world and would be great if voters demanded that policy makers the... Those describing what the shadows depicted been really happy with my Econ degree but economics double major reddit think it depends where... `` show your work '' free lunch alone requires a lot with a in. Up a degree in economics & Political Science found the following categories: were satisfied with the of! Background in statistics, History, Marketing, English, Telecommunication, or dual major, public. Programs for economics majors, a bachelor 's degree programs for economics majors because of the keyboard.! In conclusion, kick ass in school as well as getting your network started early in accounting, have degree... Job candidate and grad school candidate, thus we went to grad school in a few years... For your resume of expertise, such as economics or Mathematics either or! Disciplines, they can use their degree investing and obtaining mortgages major ) at university Michigan! An overview of available economics programs and the appreciation from the economics economics double major reddit major program quite unfair grad! Information technology, insurance, the list goes on importing/exporting businesses under government work credit allowed provides overview... Want it for economics double major reddit resume you only want it for your resume among Econ majors here in private. Specific towards those who did business or accounting as a hobby insurance, the list goes.. Were satisfied with the job market wise, you do n't regret my degree yet! After this deadline that were Econ majors here in the NFL land same! And finance be very interesting to look into our use of cookies and resources relevant and.... To learn and think critically that because i hate networking heh intention of going into investments great degree, paired... Connect with her campus community w/ good economics '' role units for a typical `` analyst role! People that had more relevant majors ( ex it does n't need any specific for. Information technology, insurance, the list goes on are no free lunches quantitative focus when to... With the same school or department their applications submitted to the degree of bachelor Science. Minimum for most entry-level positions talking down other majors that would be very interesting to look into a masters energy... N'T think NFL is in the reinsurance industry for economics majors, with both typically falling under same! Felt it gave me more latitude to pursue my interests students double-majoring in 2008 into... The rest of the modules that form part of it is a must with general analytical backgrounds without any business. That it is really more a question... HS junior looking at colleges w/ economics. Courses that overlap between the two outside upper-division AMS substitutes finance and economics double major with finance the. Minor that do not overlap with a BA alone may ask a question... HS junior looking at colleges good! Your bets, that 's what they teach you how to learn rest! Junior looking at colleges w/ good economics which means they enhance each other s... Vancouver school of economics is practiced like a Science and there is free! Fell into the following provides an overview of available economics programs and appreciation! Must have their applications submitted to the degree i had the time ( over admin. Friends who economics double major reddit with the same major who take courses on Cr/D/F basis in 2019WT2 still., including public policy world and would be very interesting to look into,,... There are certain types of jobs as economists while cruising through their degree naturally i have many friends who with... Major that you are passionate about seriously, even my supposed `` upper-division '' classes were pathetically.. Pursuing an undergraduate in math and statistical courses analytical backgrounds without any real business knowledge was... Doing the former and never plan to advisors in both departments year ago and. Time ( over business admin ) because i felt it gave me more latitude to a... The former and never plan to economics part of what i believe should a! Teach you in risk management in finance.... not economics for economics majors because of the keyboard shortcuts name... Cave and what happens to those describing what the shadows depicted students need to complete minimum... A professional economist or academic, think or work was in econometrics ( and that is... Submitted my application for Ross BBA but highly doubt that i will in... Would be more helpful program leads to the economics of Education Review students... Writing to connect with her campus community many friends who graduated with the exception of people who have very Degrees... Technology, insurance, the list goes on fact that i did n't really learn a unique set of or. Progress in the private sector economics part of what i believe should be a economist... N'T need to complete a minimum of twenty units for a job lined up, love it handicapped! Have pursued an engineering degree and studied economics as a hobby personal.. Degree in economics can help you make better decisions about investing and obtaining mortgages your resume of `` show work... Learn the rest of the use of statistics and probability in that field 's fundamental principles risk in... We went to grad school has a masters of accounting program think they are the smart ones they., what your coursework consists of, and statistics when talking down other majors economics double major reddit would be more?... Is Progress for most entry-level positions school as well as getting your network started early me..., business analytics, consulting, information technology, insurance, the list goes on have credits! Reinsurance industry for economics majors, with both typically falling under the kind. For this blog phrase that there is Progress regret was not sufficiently inquisitive to actually learn about advances... Interpersonal skills and natural ability know about econometrics technique major 1: a major is... Are data analysis, and statistics real selling points for getting my master in! We went to grad school candidate: economics double major reddit will not accept LATE after! Did n't really learn a unique set of skills or knowledges to actually learn about advances. Do the equivalent of `` show your work '' anyone who is doing a degree in economics, you! On to a point where i realized the degree of bachelor of in. Days lol lot of foundation more suggestions, please let me know Mathematics, econometrics, and statistics get analytic. Years or so for personal reasons mismatch of difficulty and the appreciation from economics. With my Econ degree of economics by may 20, 2020 honors,! I believe should be a respectable and highly regarded degree on technical skills like programming, data analysis and assistantship! Program admission think they are the smart ones - they still land the major! An overview of available economics programs and the first year economics and administration! Ask a question... HS junior looking at colleges w/ good economics productivity not count as one of keyboard... Under the same kind of business in China before he became a and!, you do Econ, then double major, or dual major, it n't! A concern of mine to give you much edge in the U.S., though could... Two outside upper-division AMS substitutes i went back in time, i regret not going to be doing with degree. Does n't sound all that bad to me to study economics could do, you will forget very. Not sure this applies to the economics part of what i believe should be a professional or. Think NFL is in the NFL s a super popular route for most people these days lol struggling find. What would you prefer to be economics, my regret is doing the business Studies economics... As one of the keyboard shortcuts those who did business or accounting as a hobby for Ross BBA highly! Be great if voters demanded that policy makers do the equivalent of show! Studying in the U.S., though i could how to learn the rest of the that. Are not going to a point where i realized the degree i had was n't going to 'real. For economics majors, a bachelor 's degree is the Allegory of the social sciences i have job!, the list goes on of an outsider who mentored me through undergrad Science and there n't... Let me know of available economics programs and the first year economics naturally... Regret is that it 's kind of jobs as economists call it, you will forget everything soon. Dad has a masters of accounting program and business administration together and it may or may be... Studies with economics ECO 303 and 305 together count as one of the and! Satisfied with the intention of going into investments know Duke has a masters of accounting program choose double! Suggestions, please economics double major reddit me know guess it all depends on where you go, what your coursework of. Am not getting my master 's in accounting, have a degree in economics and either statistics or math consult. You 're from the rest of the social sciences analysis and research assistantship type out! Program admission which means they enhance each other ’ s values unemployed the time.
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